Yuku free message boards

I can appreciate the non-hardness of Frontier - it's the people acting like it is more serious than it actually is, that's pushing my buttons.

Basara 549 wrote:

---

No, the issue is having to listen to people praise Frontier for doing 10x the stuff they damn Macross 7 for.


I despise hypocracy. Plain and simple.


And, for the whole length of my tenure on the Rat-era Robotech ML, "Macross is hard SF, how dare Macross 7 exist?" was the mantra of the RRG cabal
(well, maybe all of them except Thonon - some of his fics were more twisted than mine). It carried over to a large extent onto the Cantina, with those who
still went to that ML. Of course, at that time you were rarely there, mostly on the message boards. But, perhaps you missed it when the subject came up on the
DoZ & RMB (in subjects that didn't bring up 7 at all, in many cases). Hell, most of them refused to acknowledge Kawamori's own statements that
Macross Plus was originally NOT a Macross project, but only got made because they wanted it as a Macross story - which meant turning whatever fighters were in
it into Variable Fighters. I even went through several times and disproved the "Hard SF Macross" crap using just the original Macross series on
several occasions, long before I ever started using Basara as a handle (which, BTW, only occurred because the first places I tried registering a nick,
"Gamlin" was already claimed).


Hell, to an extent the "Hard Macross" fallacy could even be seen in attacks on Macross II, prior to Macross 7 coming to the states as fansubs, on the
Dietrich era RML.


I'm just sick and tired of hearing first "Zero", then "Frontier" described as if it's the second coming of a "Hard SF
Macross" that never existed in the first place - especially when actually watching the first episode or two disproves it for each (and, since you
didn't notice then, you'd hardly be in a position to see how many of the people praising "Zero", sight unseen, now slam it as "worse
than 7" once their "Manly Hard SF" hopes were dashed).


Of course, I DO have odd tastes in anime - Afterwar Gundam X is my favorite Gundam series after all, and I hated Seed.


BTW, Muyasuki released their version of Frontier #6 about an hour ago.

Try turning your rants on yourself, Cav.

You really LOVE putting words into people's mouths.

Sure you can dislike Macross 7 all you want, but I have every right to point out that you seem to hate it for reasons you claim to LIKE other series that are far more "lame".

Then again, likes and dislikes are often rarely rational to begin with. What is irrational is your insistance that there were no serious plot points in 7, when in fact, those plot points are central to the plots of Zero and Frontier (and, if they originate anywhere, it's in the non-canon Macross II).

Things I consider irrational are things like the arguments about Basara's singing in the VF-19 (which, personally, I feel was overused to the point of being BEYOND lame), that use as their sole basis the false premise that he was playing the instrument AND flying at the same time, where it is repeatedly shown in the series that he's using the modified control stick (which can function as a guitar when not in flight) ONLY to fly (his uses of it as an instrument are on the ground, or in straight-line flight outside combat that was probably on autopilot), and is effectively singing to a pre-recorded guitar track (Where Ray is supplying it from a soundboard to go with the band's real-time playing) or a completely pre-recorded background. As Gamlin says on at least one occasion, it's a Karaoke mecha. It's one thing to argue the concept of emotional vampires and using emotions (and things that stir them) as a weapon against them; it's another thing to ignore the more legitimate reasons to argue against it, while using an utterly false premise as the sole basis for said argument.

Your criteria is "lameness" I listed the major story arcs of Macross 7 that were and weren't lame. Nearly EVERY series can be described as "lame" at some point. The only one babbling here is you. You keep acting as if I am trying to force YOU to believe something when you're the one doing it to others.

The fact that you use only snide remarks and namecalling to try to divert the debate only proves it.

No, I have eyes and ears, that I am willing to use....

Note that in the examples I used, Evangelion was treated as "serious" anime, until people got obsessed with looking for hidden meanings, to the point of fanaticism, and started piecing together some of the odd things in the series into patterns the creators may or may not have intended (at which the fans of the series divided into "deep meaning" and "satire" camps). I personally found it as boring and incomprehensible.